my jw daughter came over monday to tell me all about her visit to bethel!.
first, she said how happy she felt and so very emotional when they took them, (a group of 8) to where the "twelve goberning body" held their meetings.
she said: "mom, i got to see where they sit!".
Heaven,
I almost forgot this thread.
Thanks for your input. It does serves well to know those details about your aunt. I wonder if my dear daughter will be one statistic as an old frustrated lady. I need prayers and so does she. God bless you Heaven. I should e-mail you soon.
Yadira
recently a poster left here, shortly after i found the reason why.
while listening to this person i could not only hear the feelings of raw pain i could feel them as well.
this hurt.. for this person exposed them self on the forum as a silentlamb not only for support, camaraderie, friendship but also to share their own thoughts and views.
Cassi, thanks!
thought i'd share a few pics from the silentlambs vigil..i hope to have more to add from some of the others that were there.
a big thanks to lizardsnot for hosting the pics for us.. .
the candles shown lined up in the bags were some of the few request made to silentlambs.
More powerful than what Dateline said!
as most of you know, i am an 'undercover brother' (someone who appears to be an exemplary jw but is making strides on escaping).. my wife is a loyal jw.
since we had the book study last night i needed to tape the show.
(by the way, my wife knows about my doubts...).
Perhaps the WT needs to hire the same firm Cardinal Mahony hired; I'm furious at their statment as why they have been hired and I'm very disgusted with Cardinal Mahony. U quote: "We are trying to equal reality. You can't do anything about "WHAT WAS", only what is and what will be". To me "WHAT WAS" involves real people suffering this evil for the rest of their lifes. To them it is and it will be! their lifes are damaged for ever. How could they call them "WHAT WAS"? Read by yourselves... so, am I as Catholic owe to think that the end of the world is around the corner? I think we need to come to facts and be able to reconize abuse regardless of our faith. I'm very happy for MrBiggs wife: she is open and not histerycal. I know I'm not going to get excommunicated for stating my position about the LA Archiodioce. They could use the money for therapy for the abused. Please, continue reading:
LA Archdiocese hires PR firm to help deal with scandal
Published 2:10 a.m. PDT Thursday, May 30, 2002
LOS ANGELES (AP) - The nation's largest Roman Catholic archdiocese has hired a public relations firm to help deal with the ongoing priest abuse scandal.
The Archdiocese of Los Angeles tapped Sitrick & Co., a Century City-based company that has dealt with high-profile cases. The company's clients have included troubled energy company Dynegy Inc., Global Crossing during its bankruptcy, actress Halle Berry following a traffic accident and comedian Paula Poundstone after her child-endangerment case.
The archdiocese was being advised by another public relations firm but church officials hired a new attorney, J. Michael Hennigan, who recommended Sitrick & Co.
"We're really proud to be involved in this," said Michael Sitrick, 54. "We're confident the church is taking proactive measures to make sure this doesn't happen again. I don't have to be Catholic to be anxious to help them work through this."
Cardinal Roger Mahony has tried to stave off questions from the public and media about the priest abuse scandal. More than 30 current or former priests of the archdiocese are now under investigation by law enforcement authorities for alleged sexual misconduct with children.
Hennigan chose Sitrick because the archdiocese "was not doing well in the press. I thought the press was focusing on the very negative aspects without the whole story coming out. Sitrick said the first order of business will be attempting to separate perception from reality.
"We're trying to get perceptions to equal reality," he said. "You can't do anything about what was, only what is and what will be."
Church officials did not disclose how much the public relations firm will receive for its work. However, Sitrick charged Orange County more than $400,000 when it dealt with bankruptcy in the mid-1990s.
alanf seem to suffer from ego centricity disorder.
people in thisn place have patted him on back too much it went to his head.
he think that cause he can shuffle a few figures and write terrible papers on evolution book that he ok. he needs humble self and quit taking praise from people.
I pray that AlanF stays in good health.... some people has attacked Amazing the same as Alan's. Even before he went to the hospital he was labeled as 'attention seeker'. Same with AlanF. He is amazing! And that's all. I'm glad for Amazing that people who really care about him are showing it big time now days. Keep up been for the forum AlanF. Love,
Yadira
Edited for errors on spelling... I know I don't see some, sorry!
Lucky you! would he consider a Catholic girl? LOL my hubby is next to me and....
in betwen my infantile bickering with farkel, and my crude shameless attempts to deshirt the lovely ladies of this board, a thought crossed my mind.
we all know that the wts loves to attack the catholics.
is it the pope's little hat that infuriates them so?
I'd like to share the news about the Catholic Seminaries and the effort of some good priests to erradicate the roots of the problems... it is sad news, but never the less, the facts. The one thing the Catholic Church does not and will not have similarities with the WT is its investigation of the crimes of abuse for children. Not fear to take a good look at the roots... Of course, there are Cardinals like Mahony who has hired a "new firm" to help him with the "damage control" of LA Diocese... I believe he is more concern for his damaged reputation. Anyway, I did not want to offend anyone on the forum, but I thouhgt this revelations to be of interest, since we know the WT will never come up with a book like this one.. and we Catholics get to read whatever we want regarding the abuse for children; even to recognize in public and deplore their polices or lack of them without fear to be excomunicated. Lets hope the WT lets their regular publishers know the facts about them. Here it goes:
PS: I edited some misspelling words, not all! LOL
BOOK BRINGS HOME TRAGEDY OF SEMINARIES THAT REJECT ROME AND DISCOURAGE PIETY
by Michael H. Brown
Last week I began reading a new book, Goodbye, Good Men, about the situation in Catholic seminaries. For years we have heard the stories: of conservative candidates who are turned away by liberal seminary "screeners," of New Age infiltration, of widespread homosexuality. I am closely related to one man who left a seminary so he didn't "lose" his faith, as he put it, and we hear time to time from others who were disallowed from piety, true holiness, and such things as saying the Rosary while undergoing their formation and education (in one East Coast seminary students had to hide in a basement room while reciting it!).
This we have known, but to see so much of it put in one package, with page after page of allegation, is still intensely disturbing, and while we usually stay away from "muckraking" within the Church (despite my own background as an investigative journalist, and despite the temptation of such huge, unmoving targets) -- and while we are wary of those who traverse too far to the right, in such a way as to lack charity (for we are all called to pray for sinners, not condemn them) -- this book is for the most part a dispassionate and well-researched recitation of facts that make one thing clear: many of our seminaries are in desperate shape, worse than most imagine, and if they are not tended to immediately they will fail to produce any worthy pastors.
Are there good seminaries? Yes. And there is much hope. Seminaries that promote solid devotion are beginning to expand -- and in some cases are bursting at the seams. Moreover, the scandal should not taint our view of the majority of priests, who are so good and dedicated.
But a crisis there is. Consider these facts (brought to light by author Michael S. Rose):
-- One prospective priest was allegedly propositioned by the president of a school of theology in California who later became acting secretary of formation for Jesuits worldwide. The attitude of the Jesuits was to "affirm the gay life," charged one student.
-- At another California seminary, the academic dean was arrested for soliciting sex with minors over the internet and distributing pornographic literature.
-- At still others, whether an applicant believes in female priests is a crucial screening question -- with those who don't favor female priests finding their vocations flatly rejected in certain instances.
-- Across the nation, seminarians are barraged with psychobabble, often ordered to consult with a psychologist when their views are too "rigid" (read: orthodox). At one seminary in Cincinnati, the admission committee based its decisions on the evaluations of a psychologist who was the Worshipful Master of Mt. Washington Masonic Lodge 642 and also a member of the Rosicrucians, an occult society! (Unsurprisingly, he rejected more candidates than he recommended.)
-- In New Orleans, candidates for the seminary were reduced to having to act effeminate in order to get past screening. One was told to speak with a lisp. "The issue was never one of my suitability for ordination," noted Joseph Kellenyi, a former seminarian at the Mundelein Seminary in Chicago. "Rather it was that the gay clique had been given veto power over who got ordained."
-- Homosexuals often practiced openly and even frequented "gay" bars during their years at the seminary. At some schools, a third or more seemed to have this proclivity. Heterosexuals who don't accept it are again labeled as inflexible -- and their vocations endangered. In line for Communion, one student testified that he saw others touching each other suggestively. (I'm not sure we need the details.)
And then there is the education. Many of our young priests are taught that the Real Presence is a myth; that Christ never intended to establish the Eucharist; that St. Augustine invented the idea of original sin; and that in general the sacraments are antiquated.
Denied in many of our seminaries are fundamental doctrines. Those who follow the Pope are considered abnormal. Indeed, as Rose points out, John Paul II would be considered "inflexible" and would probably be rejected by many screening committees in the U. S., if he was a current candidate. Daily Mass is unknown to many seminarians while visits to psychologists are strictly mandated. "They appear to be teaching at Catholic seminaries primarily to train seminarians not to be priests," laments the author.
Incredibly, teachers are often not only opposed to Rome but to the very precepts of Catholicism. One woman "opened her first class with a complaint about women's role in the Church and an admonition that the men were 'wasting their time' studying to be priests, when they should become social workers or psychologists instead."
A couple more snippets:
-- During courses in sexual education seminarians are forced to view hardcore pornography despite their protests, and sometimes themselves encouraged to experiment.
-- Crystals, enneagrams, and other gnostic techniques (read: New Age) are offered in the name of "openness."
-- Seminarians are inundated with the works of dissidents such as Father Richard McBrien, Hans Kung, and Charles Curran.
"My formation class is headed by two people," explained one student, "a discontented priest and a liberal nun who both support homosexuality and abortion issues, along with stem cell research."
This litany goes on. It's a book that should be read by every bishop in North America and the Vatican hierarchy. If what has been delineated already isn't enough, perhaps sincere Church elders will take note of one case at a notorious seminary in Baltimore where a priest who wanted to get rid of superstitions about the Eucharist blew on the paten after Communion and scattered fingernail-size pieces of the Eucharist as sort of a defiant demonstration.
This is how our priests are trained?
Fortunately, there is good news. There is a silver lining. As I said, seminaries in a conservative setting are doing well. Consider that the archdiocese of Omaha -- one of the nation's most orthodox -- ordained 56 priests from 1991 to 1998. That's in a population of just 215,000 Catholics -- while in the same period the much more liberal diocese of Madison, Wisconsin, ordained a total of four. Or take Peoria, Illinois, where a population of just 230,000 Catholics in a conservative diocese ordained nine priests a year in that period, while in 2001 the Milwaukee archdiocese, with three times the population, ordained two.
We believe the Church will not only survive, but will come out of this stronger than ever. We believe what is going on now, what started in Boston, what was even the topic of a talk this week between the Pope and President Bush, is a purification. We also believe we have to be careful that the current exposure doesn't lead to persecution. We have already seen indications of false charges against priests, and no matter what they have done, they don't need our opprobrium. They need our prayer.
But for now, we must face unpleasant facts.
They're summarized by said Archbishop Elden F. Curtiss of Omaha: "It seems to me that the vocations 'crisis' is precipitated by people who want to change the Church's agenda, by people who do not support orthodox candidates to the magisterial teachings of the Pope and bishops, and by people who actually discourage viable candidates from seeking priesthood and vowed religious life as the Church defines these ministries."
And that's the bottom line: there is a conspiracy afoot, it's the root of much that has happened since the Sixties, and its architect is Satan.
[Goodbye, Good Men is available here]
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[see also: Pope alluded to 'demon' in light of scandals]
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hardly anyone has an honest opinion about anything of importance that wasnt craftily pre-packaged and handed to them by someone else whose job it is to craft public opinion.
the intention of the media is to present the illusion of impartially informing, all the while pandering to prejudice and ignorance in order to persuade to a particular point of view.
datelines presentation of the watchtowers child abuse issue was a case study in the black art of media propaganda.. from the very beginning of the presentation dateline was intent on giving the public a negative impression of jehovahs witnesses by portraying us all as oddball crackpots whose religion revolves around the doctrine that we dont celebrate birthdays and that all non-believers are possessed by the devil and that we want them all to die.
You Know, friend,
Well.... nope! you do not need a shoulder to cry into.
I am aware of the Catholic Church's human mistakes, though I am a loyal Catholic because the Church hasn't changed their doctrines. The WT changed the Bible. I'm not going to mention the "new light" that keeps on coming up every now and then.
I will say, what kind of hope we could have in you if as been yourself so intelligent as it seems due to your posts writing which each one ot them succeeds to get us into your web of thought, still you don't seem to get it?
Nope! let me correct myself, you get it! we don't!
Friendly hugs,
Yadira
i just spoke on the phone to amazing (jim whitney) who is in intensive care in a chicago hospital.
on monday he had a major heart attack, had a stint put in an artery to unblock things and may have bypass surgery.
he's comfortable enough right now, but of course will have to make some big lifestyle changes.
Amazing! we need you to publish your book! hurry home! thanks AlanF.... love,
Yadira
this has taken a lot of courage to post.
my life with the jws has been one hardship after another.
i am sharing this to help others see that jws claim to be loving and forgiving people while they are not.
Cassi, it is only fear we bring your thread back for the ones who missed it. I think it is relevant for the ones who desagree with the Dateline program. Perhaps they need to hear more horror stories.
I'm impressed by your courage to continue with your life.
Cassi, daughter, I am proud to be your friend... love,
Yadira
